This is a partial transcript from “Hannity & Colmes,” Dec. 13, 2004, that has been edited for clarity.
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SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Across the country, efforts to separate church and state have literally been removing Christ from Christmas. In New Jersey, one school band cannot play “Silent Night” or any holiday musics that refers to religion.
In Oklahoma, parents protested the removal of a nativity scene from an elementary school play. And in Denver, the Faith Bible Chapel was barred from the city’s annual “Parade of Lights.”
Joining us now from the Christian Broadcasting Network is the author of the best-selling book, “Courting Disaster,” the Reverend Pat Robertson’s with us.
Reverend, good to see you, my friend.
REVEREND PAT ROBERTSON, CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING NETWORK: Hey, Sean.
HANNITY: Merry Christmas.
ROBERTSON: Thanks, good to be with you. Merry Christmas to you, loud and clear.
HANNITY: Loud and clear. All right.
It seems as we watch this, Reverend, every year gets worse and worse. What is your take on this?
ROBERTSON: Sean, there is a small group of people — it doesn’t represent the population — a small group of people who are just obsessed with political correctness, and political correctness has now come to mean you drive Jesus Christ and God out of our public arena.
They are stripping us of our religious heritage. And I think people are sick of it. Christmas is a time-honored tradition in our society. It’s a time of good cheer. It’s a time of good will. It’s a time where we come together in fellowship. And these people want to take it away from our society.
And I just think it’s time that people stood up against it.
HANNITY: See, I think it’s going even further. I think this is a very pivotal moment between what’s happening there. We had the Declaration case that we were dealing with last week. It seems like any mention or reference to God in any way, even though our founding document, our Declaration, talks about being endowed by our creator, that’s what they want to remove here.
It seems to be that extreme. And are they going to be successful? What do you recommend people do?
ROBERTSON: Well, you know, in my book, “Courting Disaster,” I made it clear that the Supreme Court has blown it, I mean, big time, in their decisions. The Constitution doesn’t say one word about separation of church and state. It just isn’t there. It says the Congress shall not set up a national church. That’s what it says, establishment of religion. That’s what it meant, like the Anglican church.
They will not have a nationally established church, period. And, you know, we are a profoundly Christian country. We are a religious people. The Supreme Court has said, in Zorach v. Clausen, we are a religious people whose institutions presuppose the existence of a supreme being.
And all of a sudden, political correctness is trying to take all of that away from us. But what do we do? The first thing we do is re-elect George Bush. We’ve done that.
The next thing we do is to support him all we can to see new judges put on the Supreme Court. And he may have the opportunity to appoint two or three of them who can reverse some of these iniquitous decisions.
HANNITY: That’s what you said, too. You know, the same Supreme Court said the history of God and man is inseparable. I mean, so, they recognized in the past.
Isn’t this what it’s going to be coming down to, when the president — and I think it’s inevitable over the next three years — the president’s going to have probably a couple of opportunities to appoint Supreme Court justices — that he’s going — this is going to be a pivotal moment for the next couple of generations, in terms of values and where we go?
ROBERTSON: Well, that’s why this election was so crucial. It wasn’t a question about more spending or fighting in Iraq. It was a question about whether we’re going to hold on to the moral principles and the spiritual life of our nation or whether we were going to throw it away.
And that phase has been won. Now, the next phase is going to be in the Senate when they convene. And I think, what I gather, from the whip count, the Republicans are going to stand firm to change the filibuster rule when they first convene.
They can take it — so for executive-list appointments, it will only take a simple majority to get them confirmed. Then, when the president begins to put forth outstanding judges to the various federal courts, they will be approved by a voice vote, which is what they should have been.
COLMES: Reverend, it’s Alan Colmes. It’s good to have you on the program. Merry Christmas to you.
ROBERTSON: Hey, Alan. Same to you.
COLMES: Here’s where we basically agree. Not on everything you said, obviously, but look, I’m not offended by singing a Christmas song in school. I sang them. I’m Jewish. I had no problem singing Christmas songs in school. And I don’t think it — I think it’s good to learn different cultures, just as I want Christians to learn about Hanukkah and the culture I grew up in.
I don’t think that’s detrimental to people. But doesn’t this show you, just like what happened in Denver and what happened in Oklahoma, as Sean mentioned, doesn’t that show you have to honor either all religions or none of them?
ROBERTSON: Well, yes and no. We are a Judeo-Christian society. That’s the basis of our law, of our institutions, of course, Hanukkah, absolutely Hanukkah. I mean, I’m about as pro-Jewish as you can get.
And I think we should honor our Jewish heritage, because the Old Testament comes from our Jewish friends, the New Testament was written by Jews. I mean, it’s a Jewish book, so fine.
COLMES: But you’ve got a lot of people in America who are Islamic, you’ve got people who have other religions who may not be what we conceive of mainstream American religions. Do we ignore the traditions of those people?
ROBERTSON: We don’t give them up because there is some Muslim out there that doesn’t like Christianity. If you and I move to Saudi Arabia, you just can imagine how much freedom we were going to have, or Pakistan, or any of these other Islamic countries.
We would be free maybe in our own homes to worship God the way we wanted, but as far as public declaration, it’s an Islamic state, even in Afghanistan.
COLMES: By the way, I keep hearing this phrase “taking God out of the schools,” “taking God away from us.”
Pat, I know you’re a religious man. Nobody can take God away from you, can they? The state can’t do it. Nobody can do that.
ROBERTSON: But they can take the evidence of religion away from our public square. The idea, they call it the naked public square, and that’s the goal of the ACLU. They have announced it. We want to take all vestiges of religious expression away from our public arena. That’s what they said their goal now is.
(CROSSTALK)
COLMES: Is it acceptable to celebrate Halloween, which is a pagan holiday?
ROBERTSON: Well, I don’t think it’s a national holiday. We don’t…
COLMES: But we celebrate it in schools and we have candy corns and we go trick-or-treating, and it’s part of the school celebration. Is that OK?
ROBERTSON: Well, you see, that’s the hypocrisy of this whole thing. There is no problem about celebrating witches and warlocks and goblins and ghouls, and everything is fine. You don’t hear the ACLU complaining about that, but make one mention of Jesus and Mary and Joseph and a little baby in a stable and all of a sudden everybody says “separation of church and state.” It’s hypocrisy.
HANNITY: Thanks, Reverend. And I’m sure you’ll join me in calling for Alan to sing those carols right here on “Hannity & Colmes.”
ROBERTSON: I love him. You know, once again, Alan, Merry Christmas, God bless you and Happy Hanukkah.
COLMES: And happy Hanukkah to you, Pat.
HANNITY: Happy holidays to all.
ROBERTSON: Thank you, my friend.
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